#74 - Finding Meaning: Building Confidence, Embracing Growth, and Learning From Mistakes with Jay Hedley
If you want to get support directly from us to remove your repetitive self-doubt, join our FREE community: The Sport Is Life Movement
Episode Summary:
In this episode of Sport Is Life, host Ian Hawkins sits down with Jay Hedley to explore how we can better manage our emotions, build confidence, and grow from past experiences.
- Jay Hedley introduces the map-territory distinction, explaining how our expectations shape our reactions and why adjusting our mental maps is key to navigating challenges.
- Jay Hedley shares practical NLP techniques to help athletes, coaches, and everyday individuals reframe emotional triggers, break free from limiting beliefs, and develop resilience.
Whether you're on the field or in daily life, this conversation offers valuable insights into emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and personal growth.
About the Guest:
Jay Hedley – Managing Partner at The Coaching Room
Coaching high-performance executives, leaders, athletes, sports coaches and their teams to unleash their full potential is my passion. These people engage me to enable them to help them identify the difference that makes the difference; to see with clarity, the blind spots in their professional and personal life, that are limiting them and their potential. If you work with me you will learn how to get the very best out of yourself; to identify the strength needed to challenge the very structures that are maintaining the status quo and take action on what is needed for you to be different, which isn’t easy, but very rewarding.
Currently working with CEOs and their executive teams of organisations that include: Fiji Rugby 7s, Fiji Airways, University of Technology Sydney: UTS College, RedBull Racing – Formula 1, KPMG Australia, Waratahs-NSW Rugby, Rugby Australia, Beiersdorf Australia, Alcon, Amadeus, Ipsos, Goldfields Mining, Optus Department of Defence Australia and many more.
Link/s:
Website: The Coaching Room
NLP Course: Explore the Program with Jay Hedley
Have Questions? Book a Chat with Jay
About the Host:
Ian Hawkins, host of "Sport Is Life," is dedicated to showing how sports can transform lives. With extensive experience as an athlete, a coach, PE teacher, community volunteer, and manager at Fox Sports, Ian brings a wealth of knowledge to the podcast. His journey began in his backyard, mentored by his older brother, and has since evolved into coaching elite athletes and business leaders. Ian's commitment to sports and personal development is evident in his roles as a performance coach and active community member. Through "Sport Is Life," Ian shares inspiring stories and valuable lessons to help listeners apply sports principles to all areas of life.
To access Ian's Performance Meditation Training, click here https://www.ianhawkinscoaching.com/performancemeditation and make sure you use the coupon "PODCAST" when you check out to get it for only $11.
Check Me Out On:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ianhawkinscoaching
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ianhawkinscoaching
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SportIsLife-IanHawkins
Theme Music Artist:
One Day Kings https://www.instagram.com/onedaykings/
See https://www.captivate.fm/privacy-policy-for-listeners for privacy information.
Transcript
Well, your values are given. What you
Speaker:bring to the table are your skills, your
Speaker:capacities, your capabilities.
Speaker:And you apply them in the environment,
Speaker:your value doesn't change. So a really
Speaker:good metaphor is like a gold ring.
Speaker:You know that that you can focus on your
Speaker:shininess. You can focus on your ability
Speaker:to hold a beautiful diamond. You can
Speaker:focus on your your
Speaker:shape, your ability to fit a finger. You
Speaker:can focus on all of that. But at the end
Speaker:of the day, you get a mallet wacker
Speaker:wacker ring. But, you know, heat
Speaker:it until it becomes a lump of gold and
Speaker:you know what it's worth. Exactly the
Speaker:same as it is in the ring shape. And so,
Speaker:yeah. And so the realsation that I ilike
Speaker:to get across is you're the gold, not the
Speaker:ring.
Speaker:On today's episode, we have my guest, Jay
Speaker:Headley. You want to learn how you adopt
Speaker:the language of success. And Jay explains
Speaker:how you can change the language that you
Speaker:use, the language you use in your mind,
Speaker:yourself. Talk how you share
Speaker:your message to the world. Change that
Speaker:message, change that language to change
Speaker:your life. He also has some really
Speaker:interesting stuff which you'll hear more
Speaker:about how you create more power in your
Speaker:life now like you. He's been a
Speaker:child, a parent, a partner,
Speaker:a friend, a work colleague in sport.
Speaker:He also worked with some of the biggest
Speaker:names in the sporting landscape across
Speaker:the world. Let's get into it.
Speaker:I'm Ian Hawkins and this is Sporty's
Speaker:life. The purpose of sport, as I
Speaker:see it, is to see your vision become a
Speaker:reality, find your voice, create
Speaker:strong connections and learn to trust
Speaker:your body.
Speaker:Welcome, Jay, How are you? I'm very well.
Speaker:Thank you and lovely to be here. Great to
Speaker:have you. Another Normanhurst Boys
Speaker:alumni. Thank you for.
Speaker:Coming on and sharing your story, no
Speaker:problem at all. Yeah, that was a while.
Speaker:That was a while ago. So me and
Speaker:Norman Hurst boys didn't particularly go
Speaker:very well together. We didn't leave on
Speaker:great terms. It's
Speaker:selective now, so. Like, well, I won't
Speaker:speak for you, but I'm not sure I would
Speaker:have qualified if that was
Speaker:the case. Started to be more and
Speaker:more selective as I was leaving.
Speaker:So but it didn't it
Speaker:the the focus that they had
Speaker:on on just really harsh
Speaker:corporal discipline just didn't didn't
Speaker:fit for me. And I was, you know, I was
Speaker:quite a sensitive kid and I didn't
Speaker:respond very well to being came and all
Speaker:that sort of thing. So at the end I just
Speaker:said look. You know, you guys go
Speaker:the way you're going. I'm going to go in
Speaker:a different direction. Thanks. But look,
Speaker:there are there are some. I enjoyed the
Speaker:people that I grew up with and I'm still
Speaker:in contact with a few of them. So yeah,
Speaker:very cool. And that discipline.
Speaker:Is how I remember going into that because
Speaker:I because I was just discussing before we
Speaker:hit record. I went to normal
Speaker:probably two years after you'd finished.
Speaker:That was sort of coming to an end. I
Speaker:think that era, but there was certainly
Speaker:some of that. So it should have era was
Speaker:it was it was it was very wrong, though.
Speaker:They were Kane happy back there and you
Speaker:know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He only had to,
Speaker:you know, drop a swear word and bang, you
Speaker:know, in there line up. Wait, wait for
Speaker:your six of the best. Like what?
Speaker:You do a bit of work in school
Speaker:environment at the moment and thankfully
Speaker:it's a very different environment.
Speaker:There's no way we could have kept going
Speaker:down that path. I do think that probably
Speaker:an element of discipline, but through a
Speaker:different lens is
Speaker:definitely required and it comes
Speaker:back to the word boundaries I think, but.
Speaker:Anyway, won't get too far into that
Speaker:territory. I'd love to know how you go
Speaker:from someone who's been in school
Speaker:environment that didn't particularly work
Speaker:you described just then to doing the work
Speaker:that you're doing now around high
Speaker:performance. Yeah. Where does your
Speaker:journey take you off the back of school
Speaker:then, if you if you if school wasn't the
Speaker:answer. Look, I think it actually
Speaker:led me in a, in a, in a, in a strange and
Speaker:funny kind of way. I think it led me
Speaker:to. Start to investigate my
Speaker:own, you know, spirituality and
Speaker:I'm not talking religion, I'm talking,
Speaker:you know, my spiritual understanding of
Speaker:what is of prime importance to me.
Speaker:And you know, really I began to
Speaker:go in the direction of reading a lot of
Speaker:self help sort of books and
Speaker:looking at those sort of programmes and .
Speaker:coursesI did a few of them when I was in
Speaker:my late teens. My dad was very
Speaker:supportive of that. Having him having
Speaker:gone through, going through that at the
Speaker:same time and I was really interested in
Speaker:it. And then I, I, a
Speaker:friend of mine got right into NLP, neuro
Speaker:linguistic programming in the 80s and I
Speaker:wasn't interested in it then. And I, and
Speaker:then I chased it in the 90s and I did a
Speaker:bit in the
Speaker:1990s and then I come back and
Speaker:I found it again by doing a practitioner
Speaker:course in the early 2000s.
Speaker:And that's where it all really began.
Speaker:When I was in, I was in sales management.
Speaker:Working for a company called AAPT or
Speaker:Telecom New Zealand, bought them by them
Speaker:and I was, I was
Speaker:in in doing some management programmes
Speaker:and met an NLP trainer and I really like
Speaker:the way she trained and I found her quite
Speaker:different. And I had a very good
Speaker:conversation said well look, I've done
Speaker:some NLP in the 90s, not a great deal but
Speaker:probably a week's worth. And I really
Speaker:thought it was great. She said, look, why
Speaker:don't you just come along and do our
Speaker:practitioner course. She said I'll give
Speaker:it to you at half price. And I thought
Speaker:well why not?So I went and did it and I
Speaker:fell in love our immediate I
Speaker:immediately went
Speaker:home and spoke to my wife and said this
Speaker:is what I want to do for the rest of my
Speaker:life. And so that that was the
Speaker:journey I did. I did the master
Speaker:practitioner and then I did some coach
Speaker:training programmes. The medical coach
Speaker:training system with a guy called Michael
Speaker:Hall. Then
Speaker:I went and chased down, we got
Speaker:involved in the integral framework, which
Speaker:was developmental psychology and we went
Speaker:both my business partner and I went and
Speaker:did some work with Integral Coaching
Speaker:Canada who were the leading and and
Speaker:possibly still our worldwide, the leading
Speaker:integral theory coach training system.
Speaker:And that was really good, but it
Speaker:they missed NLP. We noticed that the
Speaker:students there. Couldn't ask
Speaker:meta modelling questions which, which are
Speaker:questions that that should change
Speaker:ambiguity and specificity and they
Speaker:couldn't do that. And both
Speaker:Joseph and I thought, well, that's the
Speaker:missing piece is understanding the NLP
Speaker:communication model and how our mind
Speaker:works. Understanding that allows us
Speaker:to to understand particularly
Speaker:linguistics and with that linguistic
Speaker:background of NLP. We could
Speaker:see how NLP could marry very, very
Speaker:closely and kind of.
Speaker:Complete the picture with integral theory
Speaker:and then we got into integral and Ken
Speaker:Wilbur stuff and we've been studying
Speaker:that. We've been working with
Speaker:developmental psychologists all
Speaker:around the world for the past sort of
Speaker:10-15 years and and
Speaker:bringing NLP and developmental psychology
Speaker:together under a single banner and form
Speaker:that approach to coaching and now we
Speaker:train coaches. In what we call
Speaker:integral coaching and our
Speaker:integral coaching programme, which is.
Speaker:Pretty comprehensive, takes about two or
Speaker:three years to get through, but it
Speaker:outputs, you know, very, very
Speaker:good coaches, very skilled coaches.
Speaker:Awesome. I did my NLP about 2013
Speaker:similarlyyou describe as
Speaker:like, wow, this is where, where has this
Speaker:been? We'll get to it at the end, but
Speaker:you've got an offer for people who are
Speaker:curious and, and as a coach myself,
Speaker:I can highly recommend.
Speaker:Listening to that. Who did you do it
Speaker:with? Do you remember?
Speaker:So Rebecca, what was her maiden name?
Speaker:She worked with inspirative, you know,
Speaker:inspirative, Yeah, very good trainers.
Speaker:Yeah. No, no inspirative and
Speaker:have a like there's very few trainers
Speaker:that that actually know what they're
Speaker:doing with NLP and spirity, But one of
Speaker:them, they come from Grinder, John,
Speaker:Grinder side, very, very skilled
Speaker:trainers. They are and and they do a big
Speaker:long form diploma of NLP.
Speaker:And one of one of the only ones in
Speaker:Australia that do. So you know that
Speaker:they're very, very good. More academic
Speaker:NLP than vocational, but good.
Speaker:Yeah, that was what I found too. And I
Speaker:watch a whole lot of people out there in
Speaker:the life coaching and business coaching
Speaker:space to talk about LP. You can tell the
Speaker:ones that have done the training with
Speaker:those sort of people. You
Speaker:described it before. And I'm, I'm curious
Speaker:to know what the difference the
Speaker:difference was, because that's what I
Speaker:found too was like, it was different. It
Speaker:was, it was more, it was less about
Speaker:making. About the facilitator, I know
Speaker:that's meant to be the intention of NLP,
Speaker:but it's not always the case, as you
Speaker:know. But what I found with the
Speaker:inspirative programme, it was very much
Speaker:about allowing the person
Speaker:you're working with to drive the
Speaker:outcome. And then, yeah,
Speaker:client does the work. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker:So when, when you first came across an
Speaker:LP, what, what, what? Because you
Speaker:mentioned a few times you're like, oh
Speaker:wow, this is amazing how you said this is
Speaker:what I want to do. What was it
Speaker:specifically that grabbed you that had
Speaker:you wanting to really take
Speaker:on more of it and actually make it
Speaker:something a big part of not just your
Speaker:business, but your life? The, the,
Speaker:the power of linguistics and meaning.
Speaker:So so how meaning
Speaker:drives our performance and how
Speaker:language both does and doesn't
Speaker:matter. It, it, it, it matters
Speaker:because we pack it full of semantics
Speaker:and semantics means meaning. It's it's
Speaker:semantic that you know, our words are
Speaker:semantically loaded and we bring the
Speaker:semantics, we bring the meaning to our
Speaker:words. And,
Speaker:and by just shifting, by under,
Speaker:seeking to understand the meaning that
Speaker:has been constructed and just shifting
Speaker:the frame, finding where the leverage is
Speaker:in the meaning structure, shifting the
Speaker:frame completely transforms the game
Speaker:so quickly and
Speaker:and and completely
Speaker:that that is like watching magic occur.
Speaker:That we are, you know, we are neuro
Speaker:neurology, semantic meaning
Speaker:beings. And so we get meaning works its
Speaker:way into our neurology and meaning can
Speaker:make us healthy. Meaning can make us
Speaker:sick. So, you know,
Speaker:understanding how we construct and
Speaker:apply meaning is Seminole
Speaker:to changing the nature of mindset.
Speaker:Love that the phrase that I'm sure it was
Speaker:Les Brown used language as the software
Speaker:of the mind and you change.
Speaker:You change the software, you change your
Speaker:mind, you change the results that you
Speaker:get. You. You also mentioned
Speaker:how. Language makes us
Speaker:sick And, and I think back to growing up,
Speaker:I remember hearing my mum say, oh, you
Speaker:don't get sick. Like you've only had one
Speaker:sick day and all of school and all these
Speaker:sorts of different things. And then that
Speaker:becomes the habit, the pattern that you
Speaker:carry forward. It doesn't mean that if
Speaker:you heard a different pattern, you can't
Speaker:change it. Right? Which to me is one of
Speaker:the great parts of, of
Speaker:being able to change language, whether
Speaker:it's through NLP or using another
Speaker:modality to be able to change the story,
Speaker:change the lens. Change the data and
Speaker:change the results. So how?
Speaker:Can you think of a great personal
Speaker:example that you are able to change
Speaker:yourself through? Because to me, one of
Speaker:the greatest gifts of learning how to be
Speaker:the facilitator is what it actually gives
Speaker:you in that training or the realisations
Speaker:you have of that self. Was there
Speaker:something that really stacking up for
Speaker:you? Look, you know, my, my personality
Speaker:structure is a strong personality
Speaker:structure. It's a very independent
Speaker:personality structure. I think
Speaker:normal boys help that and help help
Speaker:me create my own structure.
Speaker:In response to what I thought was
Speaker:unfair and what I experienced
Speaker:as wrong, I decided that that,
Speaker:you know, I wasn't going to let people
Speaker:push me around anymore. And with that
Speaker:strength of personality structure
Speaker:came a lot of anger for me.
Speaker:And, you know, I, I, I grew up a
Speaker:very frustrated and angry young man.
Speaker:And you know, I, I, I, I
Speaker:racked my brain to try and figure out
Speaker:what, what, what's going on? Why am I
Speaker:angry?Yeah, and I thought it was, I
Speaker:thought it was drinking alcohol. So I
Speaker:stopped drinking alcohol for six months,
Speaker:but I was still angry, so I kept
Speaker:drinking. So it made no difference
Speaker:whatsoever. And so I, with NLPI,
Speaker:began to look at what are the frames
Speaker:that I'm holding about myself? What are
Speaker:the frames I'm holding about reality?
Speaker:What are the expectations I'm applying to
Speaker:reality that create the anger and
Speaker:frustration from an inside out?
Speaker:Perspective and I began to find
Speaker:frames that that people were out to get
Speaker:me life's unfair about and to find these
Speaker:friends, I began reframing them.
Speaker:And my anger started to fall away and
Speaker:dissipate to you know, now
Speaker:I don't I really very rarely
Speaker:use anger. But if I do
Speaker:use anger, it's with intentionality
Speaker:because it, you know, in that moment it's
Speaker:required. So, you know, if
Speaker:someone if someone wants to attack me,
Speaker:angers are very powerful response.
Speaker:So you know, if someone wants to attack
Speaker:you and you go at them, you know?
Speaker:From a, from a like a, an angry psycho,
Speaker:they what they're gone.
Speaker:So it can be very, very useful. It can
Speaker:save a life, but used
Speaker:inappropriately, it can be, it can be
Speaker:socially very damaging. It can
Speaker:cause a lot of personal
Speaker:pain and sickness and suffering.
Speaker:Anger is not great for your organs.
Speaker:It is not great for your blood pressure.
Speaker:It's not great for your health. And so
Speaker:and so working through my own.
Speaker:Anger structures and and they were built
Speaker:around expectations of how reality should
Speaker:be. And the big one was I expected
Speaker:reality to bend to my will. That was the
Speaker:big one. I discovered it was like, what
Speaker:the hell? What? That doesn't
Speaker:make any sense. So I began to release
Speaker:myself from those expectations. My anger
Speaker:just began to dissipate. And you know,
Speaker:I had it rather than it having me.
Speaker:Love that. That's huge and and. The
Speaker:word that you used that I find when I'm
Speaker:working with young athletes, which we
Speaker:were going to talk about today, is that
Speaker:the sense of when things are unfair,
Speaker:whether it's during the game, whether
Speaker:it's results, whether
Speaker:it's just day-to-day life. Like often if
Speaker:I'm working with a young athlete, it's
Speaker:not as much on the the
Speaker:actual game as it is about how they're
Speaker:navigating the rest of it. And that sense
Speaker:of. Unfairness that comes up with
Speaker:teachers, with parents, with everything.
Speaker:Huge. So So what if
Speaker:you're when you 'cause I know you work
Speaker:with some fairly high profile young
Speaker:athletes, what is it that
Speaker:or how would you go about helping them to
Speaker:reframe that sense of
Speaker:unfairness? Because I imagine it's
Speaker:different for every individual as well,
Speaker:but there must be an over sort of
Speaker:overarching pattern to it. Yeah,
Speaker:so, so. It's
Speaker:it's a conversation around power versus
Speaker:influence. And.
Speaker:To to help them understand where their
Speaker:power is and where their power isn't.
Speaker:And so in in in our
Speaker:world. You
Speaker:have control over 4 things and only
Speaker:four things. The rest is influence.
Speaker:And so you have power over
Speaker:what you think. That is the movies that
Speaker:you make in your head. Yeah. So you've
Speaker:got visual movies, you've got auditorial
Speaker:sound bite based movies. You've
Speaker:got kinesthetic feeling based
Speaker:movies and you've got self talk.
Speaker:So they're the kind of aspects of how
Speaker:they're the aspects of thinking. So you
Speaker:can control your thinking what the movies
Speaker:that you play in your head. For example,
Speaker:I'll have an athlete stand up, put their
Speaker:arms out and I'll have them access for
Speaker:themselves a single one time
Speaker:event when they were on fire, when they
Speaker:were absolutely knocking it out.
Speaker:And I, I take them back and I say, see
Speaker:what you saw, hear what you heard and
Speaker:feel what you feel. Now as you go back
Speaker:there, notice what you were
Speaker:seeing. Notice if there was any smells,
Speaker:if there was any tastes in your mouth,
Speaker:Notice what you were hearing. Notice.
Speaker:And, and as you replay that event
Speaker:and, and you replay the difference that
Speaker:made a difference, that made it a
Speaker:powerful event. And I hold their arms up
Speaker:and I push down and I go resist me
Speaker:pushing your arms. And so now I push
Speaker:their arms and they can. And and then I
Speaker:say, OK, so stop, break state what do you
Speaker:have for breakfast? And they'll tell me
Speaker:about what they have for breakfast. And
Speaker:and then I'll have them now go into a
Speaker:movie in their mind where they put their
Speaker:arms out where they can't, where they
Speaker:stuffed up loyally, where they really,
Speaker:really had a bad day on the job.
Speaker:And I had them go back and do the same
Speaker:thing, see what they saw here, that he
Speaker:feel what they feel. Notice what made it
Speaker:really bad. And notice what feeling
Speaker:they're getting as they play that movie.
Speaker:And then I have them resist and I push
Speaker:their arms and their arms, I can get them
Speaker:right down by their side. And then I turn
Speaker:them around and I go, what'd you learn?
Speaker:And they go, holy crap, the
Speaker:movies I make in my head
Speaker:drive the power of my physical
Speaker:performance. I had no idea.
Speaker:And so I'll say to them that you get to
Speaker:control the movies, right? So that's the
Speaker:first thing you get to control. The
Speaker:second thing is that your movies in your
Speaker:head drive your emotional experience.
Speaker:So your emotions aren't driven from
Speaker:what's happening in the world. You can't
Speaker:control what?Thing in the world you can
Speaker:only control what you think about what's
Speaker:happening in the world and the emotions
Speaker:that it creates. So you can you can
Speaker:control your thinking your movie making
Speaker:you can control your emotions through
Speaker:your movie making your your
Speaker:movies ground and code
Speaker:coded by your emotions so the moves that
Speaker:you run drive your emotional experience.
Speaker:They're they're your two personal powers
Speaker:yeah, you have power over those. They're
Speaker:your private and personal powers. They're
Speaker:your inner game powers. You didn't have
Speaker:two outer game powers. What you
Speaker:say, that is what you communicate
Speaker:verbally, non verbally. So your
Speaker:communication is what you have power over
Speaker:and what you do, your actions and your
Speaker:behaviours you so they're your
Speaker:external powers, they're your outer gain
Speaker:powers. They're they're your public
Speaker:powers if you like. So. So as an athlete,
Speaker:you have power over what you think and
Speaker:feel about what's happening and what you
Speaker:say and do. About what's happening,
Speaker:that's where your power lies. So your
Speaker:focus must be on those four things
Speaker:because you don't have power over
Speaker:anything else. You don't have power over
Speaker:over your computer or whether it works or
Speaker:doesn't work. You don't have power of
Speaker:other people. You don't have power over
Speaker:the weather, you don't have power over
Speaker:the empire of the referee. You don't have
Speaker:power over the opposition. You don't even
Speaker:have power over your team mates. You have
Speaker:influence, but the way you get
Speaker:influence is by taking ownership.
Speaker:The responsibility of your 4 powers,
Speaker:when you do that, you begin to
Speaker:influence the world, you begin to
Speaker:influence people, begin to influence your
Speaker:environment, but only because you're
Speaker:taking responsibility for those four
Speaker:things. So we have that conversation. And
Speaker:then I asked them to then translate
Speaker:that to some events out in their, out in
Speaker:the field, out on the courts, out on
Speaker:the out on the race track. I have them
Speaker:then go. Where could you use this? And we
Speaker:start to talk through some examples.
Speaker:Gotta make it really real, real and
Speaker:grounded in concrete for them. Yeah,
Speaker:so good. And what sort of struck me
Speaker:from the language you were using is like,
Speaker:you get your power back when you were
Speaker:focusing on the things that, yeah, you
Speaker:take it back. Yeah, you take over.
Speaker:And so then you can have more influence
Speaker:because you can influence through people,
Speaker:through the words you use. So you can
Speaker:influence the umpire or the referees. You
Speaker:can influence the crowd through your
Speaker:actions. You can influence your teammates
Speaker:by leading by example, you can influence
Speaker:the other side by putting them under
Speaker:pressure. But you've got to be taking
Speaker:responsibility when you're doing that for
Speaker:your 4 powers. And that's what gives you
Speaker:the influence, Yes. The responsibility
Speaker:for self has to come first. Has to must.
Speaker:Yeah. So good. So focus on
Speaker:control. Let go of what you can't.
Speaker:Yeah. And yeah, that's a huge one.
Speaker:You mentioned there about. They're having
Speaker:a physical response and you've
Speaker:already described a few times how the
Speaker:body holds on to the different stories
Speaker:and so on. But I love that description
Speaker:because what it does is it shows not just
Speaker:through the thoughts that they had, but
Speaker:physically how it it takes away their
Speaker:power. It may be like, think about muscle
Speaker:testing that you do in kinesiology or
Speaker:anything like, can you, can you
Speaker:share a little bit about the psychology
Speaker:of, of that part of it?Because I know
Speaker:sometimes people like when they hear this
Speaker:sort of stuff, it might,
Speaker:it doesn't make sense a TV experience it
Speaker:from my experience, you need to
Speaker:experience some sort of muscle testing or
Speaker:what you describe then to, to
Speaker:fully get an appreciation. But given that
Speaker:you do this all the time and you've seen
Speaker:the reaction, like, how would you
Speaker:describe what the body's actually doing
Speaker:there? So the inner game drives you're
Speaker:out of game experience. And so, so
Speaker:where your power is, is in the, is in the
Speaker:in the game and how it. Relates into
Speaker:the outer game experience how your
Speaker:thoughts and feelings and emotions are
Speaker:grounded in your physical being
Speaker:and, and how they influence your
Speaker:Physiology and how that Physiology plays
Speaker:out here in relationship to its
Speaker:environment. And so the inner game
Speaker:leads the outer game. So it's an
Speaker:inside out process, not an
Speaker:outside in process. And it's the biggest,
Speaker:I think it's the biggest. Shift
Speaker:for most coaches that when sports
Speaker:coaches, not not mindset coaches, but
Speaker:proper sports coaches, when they get
Speaker:that, when they get it's not outside
Speaker:in, it's not the performance that leads
Speaker:the mindset, it's the mindset that leads
Speaker:the performance and then the performance
Speaker:starts to influence the mindset and then
Speaker:the mindset starts to re influence
Speaker:performance. But we can get lots of
Speaker:leverage and traction by understanding,
Speaker:you know, what are the frames we're
Speaker:bringing. Inner frames to our outer game,
Speaker:you know, and and those frames are belief
Speaker:frames. Well, firstly their thoughts,
Speaker:then they become beliefs, then they
Speaker:become values, then they become
Speaker:principles, they become part of your
Speaker:identity and then they become part of
Speaker:your purpose. And so
Speaker:all all of those structures and,
Speaker:and helping, helping.
Speaker:Coaches and athletes really understand
Speaker:how our intentionality works, that
Speaker:that energy flows where your
Speaker:attention goes. As governed
Speaker:by your intention and, and
Speaker:you know, most people don't know what
Speaker:their intention is I'll say to them,
Speaker:what's your intention here? And I'll say
Speaker:to win and I'll say well, that's a
Speaker:that's a that's a like a very manana
Speaker:intention. Everybody wants to win So what
Speaker:so but what is important to you about
Speaker:winning? Why does it matter? Why does it
Speaker:why is it meaningful? How do you want to
Speaker:win not just whether you win, how do you
Speaker:want to win and. Said about what does it
Speaker:say about you as a human being? And
Speaker:so they they begin to discover and
Speaker:realise that they're being run
Speaker:by previous less mature intentions
Speaker:that were set back either in childhood
Speaker:in in relationship to their parents or
Speaker:that, or, or were set, you know,
Speaker:frames that were set in relationship to
Speaker:events that occurred to them that now
Speaker:play out as beliefs and values and
Speaker:identity structures and, and. So those
Speaker:are what we call prior intentions. It's
Speaker:understanding how those prior intentions
Speaker:are running us and then quality checking
Speaker:them until we can understand
Speaker:whether they're serving us or not. And if
Speaker:they're not serving us, resetting those
Speaker:intentions so that they're really
Speaker:clear on not only what they're about,
Speaker:but what's important to them and why that
Speaker:matters to them. When they've got that,
Speaker:they have conscious intentionality.
Speaker:Then energy flows through the system to
Speaker:attend to the things that align with the
Speaker:intention. Such a great
Speaker:description. And I
Speaker:love how you talked about that, that
Speaker:being the future for particularly sports
Speaker:coaches, because I often
Speaker:I'm frustrated as a word. But I look at
Speaker:when when I hear players or
Speaker:sometimes coaches after the game and they
Speaker:talk about, oh, we'll have to just get
Speaker:back and work harder. Yeah. And it's
Speaker:like, but on what? Like,
Speaker:because often it's like they're just
Speaker:going to keep like trying to push the
Speaker:boundaries of the physical capabilities.
Speaker:But as you describe there, it's like the
Speaker:the inner game drives the outer game.
Speaker:And that's my belief too, is that this is
Speaker:a real future shift and, and thankfully
Speaker:it seems to be accelerating. And if
Speaker:you don't. Prioritise it. You're going to
Speaker:get left behind in that space. Well,
Speaker:yeah. So I I see a lot of coaches, even
Speaker:at the highest levels, I see a lot of
Speaker:coaches who who believe
Speaker:that that mentality is driven
Speaker:by behaviours.
Speaker:. So
Speaker:SoI was listening to One on One with
Speaker:Justin Langer after he
Speaker:had resigned from the Australian
Speaker:coaching gig. With Barry
Speaker:Cassidy, the man, the man who has, you
Speaker:know, more wrinkles on his forehead.
Speaker:There's people trapped in there, I'm
Speaker:sure. An amazing interview.
Speaker:And and Barry asked him, you
Speaker:know, about the culture of the team
Speaker:and you know, Justin Langer said, well,
Speaker:cultures just behaviours. And I thought
Speaker:what like what
Speaker:cultures behaviours? I no
Speaker:wonder that, you know, sandpaper
Speaker:gate. It was like like with with a frame
Speaker:like that culture is behaviours is a
Speaker:complete and utter misunderstanding of
Speaker:how culture works. Culture's got nothing
Speaker:to do with behaviours. Behaviours are an
Speaker:expression of the culture. But a
Speaker:culture is really born of the
Speaker:unspoken norms that are allowed
Speaker:to exist during during
Speaker:events that that that people interpret on
Speaker:a collective basis. Culture is about the
Speaker:quality of the unspoken relationships
Speaker:that occur culture. So you know, in
Speaker:the 1950s there was a.
Speaker:A anthropologist and a zoologist came
Speaker:together and decided to create an
Speaker:experiment with blue gorillas.
Speaker:And there was a bunch of blue gorillas
Speaker:in the zoo. And so they took the head
Speaker:gorilla the big and they put the gorilla
Speaker:into a big cage and they put a set of
Speaker:stairs leading up to a big bunch of
Speaker:bananas. One of the gorillas favoured
Speaker:treats. And so the gorilla climbed the
Speaker:stairs, ripped in, started whacking some
Speaker:bananas down. Unbeknownst to the gorilla,
Speaker:there was a massive. Fire hose with a
Speaker:zookeeper on the end of it that sprayed
Speaker:him off of the stairs and into the
Speaker:corner and. You know, then
Speaker:then, you know, kept on it for a bit and
Speaker:then stopped and the gorilla, you know,
Speaker:dusted itself off and climbed back up the
Speaker:stairs. And again the hose came and I did
Speaker:it 3 or 4 times until about the fourth
Speaker:time it decided that's it. I'm not
Speaker:climbing the stairs. The pain's too much
Speaker:for the pleasure. Yeah. So they,
Speaker:they brought in the second
Speaker:gorilla, the second lead gorilla who
Speaker:looked at the first gorilla. But what's
Speaker:going on with him? Climbed the stairs
Speaker:got. He got a housing, but so did
Speaker:the first guerrilla for his actions.
Speaker:And so so when he got went to climb the
Speaker:stairs, the first gorilla went, no,
Speaker:you're not going up those stairs. They
Speaker:had a brawl and the second gorilla
Speaker:decided I'm not going to climb those
Speaker:stairs again. So they both sat there
Speaker:looking at each other, you know, wet ring
Speaker:and wet looking at the bananas but not
Speaker:doing anything. They took the first
Speaker:gorilla out. They put a third gorilla in
Speaker:the third gorilla climbed the stairs. It
Speaker:got a hose in. The second gorilla got a
Speaker:hosing. When the third gorilla went to
Speaker:climb, the second gorilla stopped it.
Speaker:They took the second gorilla out, put a
Speaker:fourth gorilla in. When the 4th gorilla
Speaker:went to climb the stairs, the third
Speaker:gorilla stopped it. Now the the 4th
Speaker:gorilla had no idea why, and
Speaker:so they took the third gorilla out. They
Speaker:put a fifth gorilla in. When the 5th
Speaker:gorilla went for the stairs, the 4th
Speaker:gorilla stopped it, and neither of them
Speaker:knew why. That's culture.
Speaker:So culture is.
Speaker:Based on.
Speaker:Past experiences and meaning made by
Speaker:those past experiences that are largely
Speaker:unconscious. And so those
Speaker:meanings, those shared meanings are
Speaker:what what comprise culture.
Speaker:The culture then drives behaviours. It
Speaker:drives in individual attitude, It
Speaker:drives systems, processes and
Speaker:environment. But it it, it, it, those are
Speaker:expressions of culture. They are not
Speaker:culture. Yeah, it also
Speaker:struck me that's a really good example
Speaker:of how people think
Speaker:things like culture are outside in and
Speaker:they're not. They're actually insider.
Speaker:They might have occurred because of what
Speaker:what occurred in the environment, but
Speaker:it's how we make meaning about
Speaker:what occurred that creates the shared
Speaker:environment, that creates the shared
Speaker:culture, the shared understanding, the
Speaker:shared meanings. It's
Speaker:so good. And, and what struck me was.
Speaker:How movements can get
Speaker:going in One Direction, good or bad,
Speaker:like people who are on this course that
Speaker:that may have some great merit, but there
Speaker:might be other causes, causes that that
Speaker:are like people are looking how how have
Speaker:they all been brainwashed by that? But
Speaker:you just described how quickly it can
Speaker:happen when the when the the person
Speaker:leading it is forceful enough, then
Speaker:then yeah, very interesting that
Speaker:the two. Words that came to mind when you
Speaker:were describing that. Were
Speaker:two words that you mentioned before when
Speaker:you talked about the beliefs and
Speaker:how things can change and that they were
Speaker:values and purpose. And
Speaker:when, when you want to be able
Speaker:to then change culture, they're
Speaker:they're two powerful ways that you can
Speaker:actually create a shift. Because. And I
Speaker:guess what you described there with the
Speaker:gorillas is kind of like you knew the
Speaker:purpose for stopping the person going up
Speaker:the grill up up to the upper stairs.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:I guess the from a animal Kingdom
Speaker:perspective, the values is around
Speaker:primarily safety. I guess
Speaker:whereas the humans we complicate values
Speaker:in a in a far broader and more
Speaker:complicated way. Well that values are
Speaker:biases like beliefs are
Speaker:biases. So and our
Speaker:biases become philtres that philtre our
Speaker:reality. And so they
Speaker:philtre in information and they philtre
Speaker:out information by the the
Speaker:bias itself has a direct our
Speaker:attention. So energy flows wherein
Speaker:tension goes as governed by intention. So
Speaker:so that energy flows
Speaker:toward meeting the bias. So
Speaker:biases seek to confirm themselves. That's
Speaker:why people get caught up in movements
Speaker:because. They're they're biases. Look to
Speaker:confirm themselves. That's what your
Speaker:beliefs are doing. Beliefs are the same
Speaker:thing. Beliefs are biases. Which means
Speaker:that they look for information that
Speaker:confirms and they discredit
Speaker:information that doesn't confirm the
Speaker:belief. So whether you do or whether you
Speaker:don't, you're right. Yes, yes.
Speaker:Whether you believe it or whether you
Speaker:don't believe it, you're right. Yeah. And
Speaker:that look for information that confirms
Speaker:that. If you do believe it, you're going
Speaker:to look for information that confirms that
Speaker:. Organisations like Facebook know that
Speaker:and so they use. Biases very
Speaker:cleverly to send information that
Speaker:meet the bias of what you want it what it
Speaker:thinks you're looking for. Based on what
Speaker:you've searched. Which
Speaker:comes back to the belief is that it's
Speaker:been curious and not too connected to one
Speaker:way of thinking, to one belief. Be open
Speaker:to that there's a different belief or
Speaker:possibility or fact and inverted
Speaker:commas out there that may
Speaker:change your current belief. Because then
Speaker:you can navigate those sort of scenarios
Speaker:in a different way. And maybe think of
Speaker:the, the description I heard, you know,
Speaker:leading up to US elections. You can look
Speaker:at two different feeds and 1:00 will be
Speaker:all blue, one will be all red.
Speaker:And no wonder they can't see either way.
Speaker:Or because they're getting exactly that,
Speaker:they're getting that confirmation bias
Speaker:which is fueling what they already
Speaker:believe.
Speaker:Is that that you know you start to
Speaker:believe your beliefs. Now that's
Speaker:fundamentalism now. Now that belief locks
Speaker:all the other beliefs in and and and now
Speaker:the confirmation bias will just
Speaker:delete, distort and generalise all
Speaker:information in alignment with those
Speaker:beliefs. Yeah. So we bring that
Speaker:back to a sporting context.
Speaker:How do we then shift the dial there
Speaker:where our whether if we're a
Speaker:coach, where we get everyone probably in
Speaker:the direction of what we
Speaker:actually want in terms of not necessarily
Speaker:results, but how we are measuring success
Speaker:as a team outside of wins and losses. But
Speaker:what what we're actually wanting to
Speaker:achieve, what's the purpose of what we're
Speaker:doing? How do we want to do it? How do we
Speaker:want to carry ourselves? Yeah, so, so
Speaker:there's a couple. Things that really
Speaker:stand out there for me. So number
Speaker:one is the differences.
Speaker:Between confidence and esteem, that's the
Speaker:first one because confidence is about
Speaker:belief and separating the
Speaker:two. And the second one is to go
Speaker:beyond belief. So, so a lot of
Speaker:coaches use beliefs, say that you've got
Speaker:to believe Ted last time you've got to
Speaker:believe. And really beliefs are the
Speaker:structures that actually get in the way.
Speaker:Because I believe, you know,
Speaker:the formation of belief is in the
Speaker:early stage of development structure.
Speaker:They're necessary, but they're not
Speaker:sufficient. So they're necessary. They're
Speaker:necessary for discipline, they're
Speaker:necessary for a growth, they're necessary
Speaker:for honing and and
Speaker:directing. They're necessary for young
Speaker:people. So beliefs and values act as a
Speaker:greenhouse. They act as a greenhouse to
Speaker:provide an environment. But
Speaker:those beliefs will end us, end up holding
Speaker:us back the way if you grew a an oak tree
Speaker:in a greenhouse, eventually the oak tree
Speaker:is going to get to the top of the
Speaker:greenhouse, no matter how big the
Speaker:greenhouse is. And it's going to either
Speaker:push through it or it's going to be
Speaker:retarded by it. It's going to be held
Speaker:back by it. And so if you
Speaker:dismantle that greenhouse, which has
Speaker:served its purpose, it's grown the oak
Speaker:tree up, provided a beautiful
Speaker:environment. For growth and development.
Speaker:A nurturing, supporting environment, but
Speaker:it's not an environment for thriving
Speaker:and it's not an environment for ultimate
Speaker:potential. And so going
Speaker:beyond belief is really
Speaker:having athletes test
Speaker:beliefs. To test well,
Speaker:what's beyond that and, and what's the
Speaker:possibility beyond that belief? And how
Speaker:would you put it to the test? How could
Speaker:you actually test it? To get past
Speaker:confirmation bias, to learn whether the
Speaker:beliefs actually serving you or the
Speaker:beliefs starting to hold you back,
Speaker:because all beliefs in time
Speaker:will eventually hold you back as you
Speaker:grow. They don't grow with you.
Speaker:They, they will start to become.
Speaker:Structures that hold you back. And so
Speaker:beliefs have got, you know, athletes have
Speaker:got to go beyond belief. And I mean,
Speaker:Roger Bannister was a classic experience
Speaker:of that, you know, that, you know,
Speaker:we didn't believe we could run the four
Speaker:minute mile. Roger. He he, he
Speaker:believed that that belief was wrong and
Speaker:that belief needed to be tested and
Speaker:could be broken within days
Speaker:of Roger. Breaking through that
Speaker:belief, another one, another one another
Speaker:one another, one another, one, another,
Speaker:one, another, one, another one. We were.
Speaker:The records were bringing tumbles because
Speaker:all of a sudden people broke through the
Speaker:belief that it's not possible. Yeah,
Speaker:so good.
Speaker:He looked at it and said, how can I? How
Speaker:can I test whether this is possible? What
Speaker:do I need to do? How do I need to
Speaker:approach this in a different way to test
Speaker:whether that belief is real or accurate
Speaker:or not?Yeah.
Speaker:And the the second thing is, is
Speaker:confidence versus sustain people mix them
Speaker:up and so to confide in
Speaker:yourself. Is to believe in
Speaker:yourself, and it is belief
Speaker:in a skill. And so confidence
Speaker:should go up and should go go
Speaker:down. As a skill goes
Speaker:up and as a skill declines, belief or
Speaker:confidence should go up and down to meet
Speaker:it. You don't want to go to a Doctor
Speaker:Who's overconfident. You don't want to go
Speaker:to a Doctor Who's under confident. You
Speaker:want to go to a doctor if they're going
Speaker:to perform brain surgery on you, for
Speaker:example. That has a very
Speaker:high level of confidence because they
Speaker:have the skill that meets their
Speaker:confidence. You don't want that
Speaker:confidence tracking ahead or behind their
Speaker:skill. Yeah. And so and so it
Speaker:is. It should rise and it should fall
Speaker:with skill so that you don't want a
Speaker:doctor that's overconfident. No worries.
Speaker:It'll be fine. It will cut in. We'll RIP
Speaker:it out back. You'll be tickety Boo, you
Speaker:know, only to wake up and find you can't
Speaker:speak. We don't want to build
Speaker:a doctor that's like.
Speaker:Doing the right thing. I mean like we
Speaker:want someone who is high level of
Speaker:confidence matched with skill.
Speaker:Or self value on the other
Speaker:hand should not go up and down.
Speaker:That, that our humanity is a given.
Speaker:Our our value is a given. It's it's it's
Speaker:built into our humanity. You know? Do
Speaker:you have kids in? I do, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:Do you remember holding one of your
Speaker:children in your crook of your arm for
Speaker:the very first time?
Speaker:Frightened. But.
Speaker:It's a miracle, is it not, that you're
Speaker:holding this extraordinary being. But
Speaker:here's the interesting thing that being
Speaker:can't do anything, can't say anything,
Speaker:can't own anything according to
Speaker:the values that that that we hold about
Speaker:ourselves is valueless. But
Speaker:yet we know that the most valuable
Speaker:thing on the planet, even it can
Speaker:eat. Cry, sleep, that's about it.
Speaker:And so and so, yeah, yeah,
Speaker:we, we align our own
Speaker:self value with what we do so that
Speaker:when the doing goes up and down, the
Speaker:sense of self goes up and down. It's
Speaker:like us attaching our sense of self to
Speaker:what we do is attaching our esteem to
Speaker:our confidence, and that's dangerous.
Speaker:And so and so like a baby is
Speaker:the most valuable thing on the planet,
Speaker:and they can't. Anything and so we
Speaker:know its value is inherent. We
Speaker:know that value is a given. That's
Speaker:you, that's me. Where
Speaker:that so our value doesn't go up and down.
Speaker:It's stable and it's
Speaker:unconditional. When that happens, the
Speaker:skill level can go up and down and the
Speaker:confidence level can go up, down in
Speaker:alignment with the skill that's healthy.
Speaker:But when our value stays solid in the in
Speaker:in the face of winning or losing in the
Speaker:face of good. Bad, fair, unfair. When
Speaker:our value stays stable, those become
Speaker:learning experiences. Those become
Speaker:developmental. It's such
Speaker:a great analogy to describe that looking
Speaker:at the baby, the one I use is often
Speaker:around the baby
Speaker:learning to walk. And,
Speaker:and I talked before about sporting
Speaker:parents. What did we say when
Speaker:they when they're at that level, we're
Speaker:not screaming at them to do better. Not
Speaker:not we're not. I gotta Walker. Are
Speaker:you gonna get up and walk? Come. Of
Speaker:course we don't. We're encouraging. We're
Speaker:it's a process. Yeah, exactly
Speaker:right. Encouraging in process. And and
Speaker:that's exactly where it comes from When
Speaker:when I'm talking to sports parents is
Speaker:like how how how do you
Speaker:think you would be reacting if you're in
Speaker:your workplace and someone's yelling at
Speaker:you, trying to make you perform better
Speaker:the way. You're actually yelling at the
Speaker:moment. All the difference
Speaker:between outcome thinking and
Speaker:process thinking, yeah, that that where
Speaker:athletes go to high levels of
Speaker:performance is they stop watching the
Speaker:scoreboard and they start focusing on the
Speaker:process. And the way that that
Speaker:I developed that model
Speaker:was when when I worked with
Speaker:Waratahs rugby, for example, when when I
Speaker:remember one of their players come off
Speaker:and he had a blinder of a game they had
Speaker:put the Rebels. The sword, I think we
Speaker:beat them
Speaker:5728
Speaker:and in the second half we just
Speaker:annihilated them. And he came off and I
Speaker:said to him, let's say he was Bob. I said
Speaker:hey Bob mate, what a game. You
Speaker:know what happened out there? And he said
Speaker:I don't know, I can't remember. And I
Speaker:said, what do you mean you can't
Speaker:remember? And he said, well it was
Speaker:like one minute we were kicking off and
Speaker:for the second half and the next minute
Speaker:the hood was going and I was like what?
Speaker:What, what, what? And I. Well, that's
Speaker:flow. And he said, yeah. And I
Speaker:said where was your sense of self? And he
Speaker:said there wasn't any. And I said where
Speaker:was your sense of time? He said there
Speaker:wasn't any. And I said to him, well,
Speaker:where was your sense of what was
Speaker:happening on the scoreboard? And he said
Speaker:I had no, there was no recollection of
Speaker:the scoreboard. I was. He said
Speaker:this, I was lost in the
Speaker:process. And so I bang. Well,
Speaker:there's process thinking and then
Speaker:outcome thinking is observing the school
Speaker:board because you're worried about. The
Speaker:outcome means you're not engaging in the
Speaker:process. And it's the same for a child
Speaker:that a child doesn't fall over. I
Speaker:might cry, but they don't go. I'm an
Speaker:idiot. I'm a moron. How could I have done
Speaker:that? I'm a homeless. I'm never going to
Speaker:walk. They just pull themselves up and
Speaker:they try again and they fall over. They
Speaker:might have a bit of a cry, but you know
Speaker:what? A minute later, they're back up,
Speaker:wobbling on that couch. Pull themselves
Speaker:up. Wanting to take a step again, they're
Speaker:they don't have the critical mindset.
Speaker:They're in the process. They're
Speaker:lost in it. The same happens for an
Speaker:athlete. When that occurs, high
Speaker:performance occurs. Yeah, it,
Speaker:it made me think of what I heard Angela
Speaker:saying recently. He got, he
Speaker:got caned a fair bit in the press when he
Speaker:was, they were down to nine men and he
Speaker:was still playing the same process. And
Speaker:he said like we're taking the scoreboard
Speaker:off of it and he's looking long term. He
Speaker:wants long term success for that club and
Speaker:he wants him to be getting out of that.
Speaker:Mentality of being absolutely now that
Speaker:he's a good coach. Oh absolutely because
Speaker:he Cos he knows that sort of thing And
Speaker:and why I wanted to mention Ange is
Speaker:because he talks in his story a lot about
Speaker:the impact of his dad. You mentioned your
Speaker:dad briefly before. I imagine
Speaker:if what he was getting himself involved
Speaker:in it was beneficial that your dad had a
Speaker:a fairly impactful part in your
Speaker:journey. Was it from a place of.
Speaker:Like inspiring you because of a number of
Speaker:different things he was doing? Or was it
Speaker:from different challenges? Or was it a
Speaker:combination of both?
Speaker:My dad very like 2 weeks ago passed
Speaker:away and I was in his bedside. He had
Speaker:dementia and
Speaker:he went unconscious and then and then
Speaker:past he been bedridden for with a broken
Speaker:hip for a year and so it was a miracle
Speaker:that he lived as long as he lived. But as
Speaker:he was passing and I had my hand on his
Speaker:head I I had a realisation about what my
Speaker:dad was about and and in the
Speaker:service I came up and what I like to make
Speaker:up words because I like to play with
Speaker:language. And the word that came
Speaker:up for me was a gentle and a gentle
Speaker:means, an agent of gentleness.
Speaker:And he was just an incredibly
Speaker:gentle human being. And, and that was an
Speaker:inspiration that, that
Speaker:he had a very gentle way of understanding
Speaker:things and looking at the world and
Speaker:seeing the world. It's not that he wasn't
Speaker:fierce. He, he, he definitely was fierce.
Speaker:But you know, he hated thugs. He hated
Speaker:violence. He. War, he hated
Speaker:all that he didn't hate it against it,
Speaker:but he, he, he, he didn't
Speaker:like it and spoke out against it
Speaker:quite, quite openly and said, you
Speaker:know, we, we we need to find a much
Speaker:better way. And so that level of
Speaker:gentleness that I experienced
Speaker:through him is really what
Speaker:has impacted me and it impacted me to
Speaker:shed myself of the anger and.
Speaker:And rallying against the world that I did
Speaker:as a younger man to become a
Speaker:more caring, connecting
Speaker:people, centred, you
Speaker:know, coach and leader, that
Speaker:that has been the centre of my
Speaker:evolution. And I think that's been the
Speaker:greatest impact he's had upon me. Yeah,
Speaker:well. Thank
Speaker:you for sharing and I didn't know that
Speaker:was where I was going to head it. It
Speaker:sounds like it you know, like he'd been
Speaker:having ongoing struggles. So I was going
Speaker:to use a heartbreaking as I as I think it
Speaker:is when anyone passes it sounds like
Speaker:you've. You're in a better position to
Speaker:deal with it. I imagine you've had the
Speaker:process a fair bit over his journey of of
Speaker:illness. I mean,
Speaker:for me that, you know, death
Speaker:of a parent really has me look at my own
Speaker:mortality. And,
Speaker:and, you know, the realisations I've had
Speaker:over the past year of, of, you know,
Speaker:being with him as he's going through the
Speaker:process of end of life
Speaker:has been the understanding that that
Speaker:death makes life meaningful.
Speaker:And you know that life only
Speaker:exists because of death and death only
Speaker:exists because of life. And they're both
Speaker:part of a process. And for me,
Speaker:seeing that within myself has meant that
Speaker:that, you know, I, I realise that
Speaker:eachof us has a
Speaker:finite number of heartbeats.
Speaker:And it's not money and it's not
Speaker:time that is the greatest currency.
Speaker:It's heartbeats. And you know
Speaker:what I do with athletes and
Speaker:coaches?Is I get across to them the
Speaker:understanding that that you know, by by
Speaker:focusing on something, they're giving
Speaker:their heartbeats to it. And is the
Speaker:exchange worth it? Is the exchange
Speaker:of getting caught up in the bullshit that
Speaker:people get caught up in their mind about
Speaker:this or that? Is it worth the exchange of
Speaker:heartbeats because you can't get them
Speaker:back? And so how you're spending your
Speaker:heartbeats, I'll often say when people
Speaker:get caught in a, in a, in a, you know,
Speaker:looping in their mind, are you spending
Speaker:time in your heartbeat? This is a good
Speaker:way. You expressing your heartbeats and,
Speaker:and they start to realise that, , alright
Speaker:my, my mortality is meaning and meaning
Speaker:matters. And so, you know,
Speaker:if you are at the end of your life going
Speaker:to look back and go, if I spent my
Speaker:heartbeat effectively,
Speaker:impactfully through those
Speaker:decisions, how will that, how does that
Speaker:affect the decisions you're making now?
Speaker:Really powerful, really powerful. It's
Speaker:funny, I was only at a funeral yesterday
Speaker:and and what you described then around,
Speaker:you know, you contemplate your own.
Speaker:Your own mortality. And, and that was
Speaker:definitely the case. I thought back to my
Speaker:dad's funeral, which is over 19 years
Speaker:ago now. And I did, I sat there in that
Speaker:moment going what, what, what would my
Speaker:legacy be? And at the funeral yesterday,
Speaker:my sister-in-law talking about her
Speaker:dad and, and how, what one of the real
Speaker:key things was like being authentic. He
Speaker:was authentically himself and he gave his
Speaker:children full permission to, to be
Speaker:authentically. Themselves and, and, and,
Speaker:you know, like, like they should at any
Speaker:funeral. They talked about the different
Speaker:challenges. He he wasn't perfect. None of
Speaker:us are. But it was really focusing on
Speaker:those messages. And I think what you
Speaker:described there, it's like we don't have
Speaker:to wait till, till one of our parents
Speaker:passes or to funerals to, to have a think
Speaker:about our own legacy. And and what
Speaker:is the message? Because that comes back
Speaker:to the word you used before as
Speaker:value, like finding that inherent
Speaker:value that you bring to the table. It's
Speaker:such a a powerful, a powerful
Speaker:tool. Well, your values are given. What
Speaker:you bring to the table are your skills,
Speaker:your capacities, your capabilities.
Speaker:And you apply them in the environment,
Speaker:your value doesn't change. So a really
Speaker:good metaphor is like a gold ring.
Speaker:You know that that you can focus on your
Speaker:shininess. You can focus on your ability
Speaker:to hold a beautiful diamond. You can
Speaker:focus on your your
Speaker:shape, your ability to fit a finger. You
Speaker:can focus on all of that. But at the end
Speaker:of the day, you get a mallet wacker
Speaker:wacker ring. But, you know, heat
Speaker:it until it becomes a lump of gold and
Speaker:you know what it's worth. Exactly the
Speaker:same as it is in the ring shape. And so,
Speaker:yeah. And so the realsation that I ilike
Speaker:to get across is you're the gold, not the
Speaker:ring. Yeah, that
Speaker:what what sort of struck me there is
Speaker:the ability for people to be
Speaker:able to articulate or express their value
Speaker:as the key part, their value. Is there.
Speaker:Exactly. Yeah. Being able to share their
Speaker:value in a, in a way that people
Speaker:understand and that they feel
Speaker:comfortable sharing. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. And then and then and then, you
Speaker:know, once you realise that you're the
Speaker:gold, not the ring, you can choose your
Speaker:shape. You can choose the shape
Speaker:of that, but the gold never goes away
Speaker:because that's you. That understanding
Speaker:allows you to go out there and
Speaker:perform and make mistakes. I mean,
Speaker:we have a saying that, you know, my
Speaker:stake is the stake in the ground. It's a
Speaker:benchmark. And so, and so
Speaker:actually making mistakes is the fastest
Speaker:way to learn. And I haven't found a
Speaker:faster way to learn yet. And I have
Speaker:looked, I have looked at how can, how can
Speaker:we be better learning?Making mistakes is
Speaker:in, in our world, the fastest way to
Speaker:learn. So from in our world, there's no
Speaker:failure, only feedback. And it's,
Speaker:it's whether you're open to that feedback
Speaker:that you get begin to get lost in the
Speaker:process. And so we have a saying at the
Speaker:coaching group, which is go ugly early,
Speaker:get it out the way, make all the mistakes
Speaker:ahead, learn from them, grow from them,
Speaker:and you'll develop into someone who is
Speaker:performing at a higher level of
Speaker:performance than others because you.
Speaker:Those mistakes to shape you
Speaker:and shape your learning. Let go of the
Speaker:event, hold on to the learning
Speaker:and then you know, helping people release
Speaker:the event whilst they take the learning
Speaker:forward with them as a human being makes
Speaker:them more fully human and out from our
Speaker:perspective. Yeah,
Speaker:when people are working on those
Speaker:different like events, those different
Speaker:memories, it's a, it's a good one how you
Speaker:describe that, because it's like you
Speaker:can't, you're not going to remove the
Speaker:memory. I mean, it may, it may
Speaker:dissipate, but the memory is there. But
Speaker:it's like how you are looking at
Speaker:that value. What's your belief or what's
Speaker:the value you're assigning to? What's the
Speaker:story you're telling in your head? Yeah,
Speaker:we call it the frame. What's the frame
Speaker:that you hold around that memory?
Speaker:Because the frame determines how you
Speaker:experience the memory, not the memory.
Speaker:And so and So what we do is we show
Speaker:people how. How how they are
Speaker:framing it, the meaning that they're
Speaker:applying to it. We have them, we have
Speaker:them quality check that and if it's not
Speaker:serving them, reframe the meaning
Speaker:around what it means and take that
Speaker:meaning and therefore the learning that
Speaker:comes from that meaning and that frame
Speaker:with them whilst whilst releasing the
Speaker:old frame which no longer no longer
Speaker:serves or is even accurate.
Speaker:Yeah, yes, because our memories are
Speaker:wonderfully creative as well, aren't they?
Speaker:They certainly are. They
Speaker:certainly are. When?
Speaker:When you become a coach and a performance
Speaker:coach, from my experience, everyone I've
Speaker:interviewed has some sort of back story
Speaker:around challenges that they've had to
Speaker:overcome, that it's inspired them to want
Speaker:to help people. You mentioned
Speaker:like the extremes of you had a
Speaker:gentle dad, that was a post
Speaker:of all these things, but you also talked
Speaker:about that experience at Normanhurst
Speaker:where the the opposite went through.
Speaker:Was that the main?Story that you had
Speaker:to overcome or was there something else
Speaker:that happened in your life that was a set
Speaker:back that. That you had to go through
Speaker:to, to then get to the point where you
Speaker:wanted to pass messages on to other
Speaker:people. Look, as a, as a kid, I
Speaker:was, I was really pushed around,
Speaker:particularly at, at, at at back in the
Speaker:in, in high school, early high school
Speaker:days, I was, I was a small kid.
Speaker:I was a pretty sensitive kid
Speaker:and, you know, people decided that they
Speaker:were going to take advantage of that and
Speaker:I got pushed around a lot.
Speaker:And, you know, I actually think
Speaker:that that
Speaker:facilitated me
Speaker:eventually going no more, no
Speaker:one's going to push me around. And so
Speaker:it really
Speaker:was a painful period of my life. But
Speaker:I think it was Seminole in. I'm not
Speaker:saying it's good, but for me, the meaning
Speaker:I made out of that in reframing
Speaker:that was that, you know.
Speaker:It taught me to become more
Speaker:independent. And through
Speaker:that, I learned that I could stand
Speaker:up for myself, that no one was going to
Speaker:stand up for me. And I began to
Speaker:become more agent in, in my
Speaker:life and I began to become more directive
Speaker:of where my life went. And I began to
Speaker:make, you know, difficult decisions and
Speaker:not let the thought of failure
Speaker:stop me from from doing things. And so I
Speaker:think even though that was a painful
Speaker:thing to go through and it is for a kid.
Speaker:And, and you know, as, as adults, we need
Speaker:to stand up. And my dad did that. He
Speaker:stood up and he went, you know, what if,
Speaker:if, if this ain't working for you, let's
Speaker:go find a place that will. And we found a
Speaker:school that I finished my schooling in
Speaker:who really did serve me and that, and we
Speaker:did it. He did it in a very gentle way.
Speaker:It was no aggression in which we just
Speaker:said goodbye. We, we, we separated,
Speaker:you know, I separated from school, found
Speaker:a school that really worked for me, that
Speaker:had teachers were, that were a lot more
Speaker:sensitive to kids. And really brought
Speaker:that out in me. So you know, they,
Speaker:that was the biggest set back, I think. I
Speaker:mean, you know, starting the starting a
Speaker:business like the coaching room, coming
Speaker:from the corporate world, that was a
Speaker:really big step and it was a
Speaker:very scary step. But you know, it was
Speaker:one that I decided I needed to
Speaker:make for my own growth and development
Speaker:and one that I was going to make work.
Speaker:And that was, you know, over 20 years ago
Speaker:now, so. Yeah, yeah. I'd love you to
Speaker:share some challenges because I talk to
Speaker:people a lot when they get to that point
Speaker:where they're like. Don't love my career.
Speaker:It's served me really well. I'm sort of
Speaker:tied to it to a certain degree, whether
Speaker:that's paycheck or identity or words you
Speaker:use before or otherwise. I know it was
Speaker:massively challenging for me, but I was
Speaker:also of that same belief. Still am.
Speaker:I'm going to make this work, I'm going to
Speaker:continue to make this work and whatever
Speaker:it looks like and continue to move
Speaker:forward. But it is it's massively
Speaker:challenging when it goes against all of,
Speaker:for most people, probably the language
Speaker:they heard growing up, the patterns that
Speaker:they witnessed, the behaviour that they
Speaker:experienced. What did you do?
Speaker:How did you get through that time? I
Speaker:imagine you didn't do it on your own. I
Speaker:imagine you had support through that. How
Speaker:did you make that transition? What were
Speaker:some of the key learnings that you could
Speaker:pass on to the listeners and viewers
Speaker:today?Jay, the, the, the biggest learning
Speaker:was a realisation that growth doesn't
Speaker:occur inside of my
Speaker:comfort zone so that,
Speaker:you know, while I'm comfortable, I'm not
Speaker:growing. And that's that,
Speaker:that my experience, my, my, my
Speaker:20 years in working with high
Speaker:performance business people, sports
Speaker:people, is, is that
Speaker:realisation that growth does not occur
Speaker:inside of our comfort zones. It occurs.
Speaker:At the edge of our comfort zone. And
Speaker:so, you know, discomfort actually
Speaker:means we're growing. So,
Speaker:so you know, what seems to be
Speaker:uncomfortable is actually forcing us to
Speaker:grow. Now, now I then
Speaker:I then link that in a game growth
Speaker:to physical outer game growth.
Speaker:And I had to realisation that that's true
Speaker:in our Physiology as well, that we can't
Speaker:grow physiologically, we can't grow.
Speaker:Mess, for example, without getting bloody
Speaker:uncomfortable it you know, if you wanna
Speaker:go and do strength training and you wanna
Speaker:grow, it hurts. You know, people say aye,
Speaker:you know I don't, I don't like strength
Speaker:training and hurts. It's been to hurt.
Speaker:It's meant to be uncomfortable because
Speaker:what that's doing is it's breaking down
Speaker:your muscles so that it fires out the
Speaker:lactic acid to get the proteins into the
Speaker:muscle to facilitate the growth. That
Speaker:that, that, you know, we can't become
Speaker:physically fit. Without pushing
Speaker:ourselves, we can't become, you know,
Speaker:strong. Without pushing ourselves, the
Speaker:same occurring on the inside that
Speaker:that that growth happens at the edge of
Speaker:our comfort zone. People
Speaker:often say, you know, surround yourself
Speaker:with like minded people. Actually, we
Speaker:take a really different approach.
Speaker:Surround you with yourself, with the
Speaker:people who piss you off most so you can
Speaker:free yourself of them so that they're not
Speaker:you're no longer triggered. By them. So
Speaker:surround yourself with assholes and free
Speaker:yourself fast. You know, stop surrounding
Speaker:yourself with like minded people who keep
Speaker:you in your comfort zone surrounded with
Speaker:people. Surround yourself with people who
Speaker:push and stretch the crap out of you
Speaker:and and and push yourself
Speaker:constantly. You know and get into
Speaker:get into being comfortable. Being
Speaker:uncomfortable would be the greatest
Speaker:lesson that that that that I have
Speaker:learned. And so, you know, I
Speaker:work in the field of Formula One. I work
Speaker:with Formula One drivers, I work with
Speaker:Formula One teams, I work with
Speaker:rugby teams, I work with coaches,
Speaker:rugby coaches, I work with boxers and
Speaker:boxing coaches, swimmers that I
Speaker:work with wave boarders. It doesn't
Speaker:matter what what we what we're doing that
Speaker:the process is exactly the same. And
Speaker:working with all those people and
Speaker:business people has helped me understand
Speaker:that. High performance comes from the
Speaker:the will and the desire to really stretch
Speaker:oneself. And so that's true for me
Speaker:too, that, that, you know, I've, I've,
Speaker:over the years, I've put myself right out
Speaker:there when, when I went and worked with
Speaker:the Waratahs and the then coach
Speaker:Darryl Gibson, I, I had no
Speaker:training in rugby or high
Speaker:performance sport. I loved
Speaker:rugby. I've played rugby when I, when I
Speaker:was a kid, I fell in love with the
Speaker:Australians in the in, in the late mid
Speaker:90s. When, when we
Speaker:won the World Cup in
Speaker:99 and, and I was working
Speaker:with Vodafone, who were the biggest
Speaker:sponsors of rugby. So I knew the
Speaker:players, I was connected with players.
Speaker:But I, I, I knew nothing about coaching.
Speaker:I knew nothing about the game. I knew
Speaker:nothing about really mental skills.
Speaker:But I, I knew a lot about human
Speaker:beings. And so I stretched
Speaker:myself to, to really push myself,
Speaker:to take myself. And put myself out there
Speaker:and it was damn uncomfortable.
Speaker:Which because the season before
Speaker:I, I went to work with them, they had
Speaker:their worst season on record. And I
Speaker:thought, well, you know, can't get any
Speaker:worse. And, and you know, so, so
Speaker:like the following season we took them
Speaker:into the semifinals. So it got a whole
Speaker:lot better. And, and you know, what we
Speaker:did made a difference. It worked, but it
Speaker:wasn't without a stretch. It wasn't
Speaker:without a lot of discomfort for me.
Speaker:And a hell of a lot of discomfort for for
Speaker:Gibbo and a hell of a lot of discomfort
Speaker:for the players and. And Andrew Hall,
Speaker:the CEO, he went through a lot of
Speaker:discomfort, you know, faced a lot of
Speaker:things. The Israel Folau stuff was all
Speaker:happening at that time. There's a lot of
Speaker:discomfort in there. But you know what,
Speaker:as a, as a, as a, as a team, as a, it
Speaker:all grew, you know,
Speaker:dramatically that year. I
Speaker:love how you started that analogy with
Speaker:the, the, the creating more muscles.
Speaker:It's like it's actually
Speaker:breaking fibres of themuscle to, to
Speaker:create more. I think it made me think of
Speaker:like the broken finger I've got here that
Speaker:where, where it actually gets stronger as
Speaker:a result of that. And, and it's so true
Speaker:of, of ourselves. We can stay in this
Speaker:nice little gentle comfort zone, but
Speaker:there's no growth there. There's no
Speaker:fulfilment. There's no meaning, no, no,
Speaker:well, no meaning of quality. But the
Speaker:more you can get yourself out of that
Speaker:space. Now I imagine as a sensitive
Speaker:child growing up that going
Speaker:through those different challenges.
Speaker:Would have been even more challenging
Speaker:because of that sensitive side, but
Speaker:growing up the same because like it's the
Speaker:weight of that emotion can come crashing
Speaker:down again for the for the people who are
Speaker:tuning in today, Jay, like what
Speaker:can you share a little bit about your
Speaker:story around that because I tend to have
Speaker:a lot of people that. Following me that
Speaker:that have that similar empathy
Speaker:capability and then and how they
Speaker:would learn to, to navigate that in an
Speaker:easier way. Look, I realised a
Speaker:while back when I look back on on that
Speaker:upbringing and everything that, that the
Speaker:one thing that really was the difference
Speaker:that made the difference is I embraced
Speaker:the downside. I embraced loss, I
Speaker:embraced hardship. I embraced it, I
Speaker:welcomed it in. And I did it, I did it
Speaker:fairly unconsciously. And I think it was
Speaker:because of my dad's very, a gentle
Speaker:approach to life that, that it
Speaker:just become part of it. It just become
Speaker:part of the, the, the unfolding
Speaker:and it, the discomfort, I
Speaker:think I realised unconsciously wasa
Speaker:part of growth and
Speaker:development. And so, you know, I realised
Speaker:that thatwhat I'd done over time,
Speaker:because I did a lot of self help stuff. I
Speaker:was in my teams and that I really, I
Speaker:really learned to reframe that and begin
Speaker:to embrace that and welcome it
Speaker:and it and allow it to shape me.
Speaker:And that was really the biggest
Speaker:difference that made a difference that
Speaker:allowed me to get through it. So in a
Speaker:way, the sensitivity was
Speaker:an asset that that
Speaker:allowed me to to, you know.
Speaker:Sure. I I, I took, you know, went to
Speaker:Bunnings, got some concrete and hardened
Speaker:up. As a result of it, but
Speaker:this coming out the other side of
Speaker:that was also a much more sensitive side
Speaker:of me as an adult, as a man, as a
Speaker:father, as a husband to to
Speaker:be more sensitive,
Speaker:although my wife would call me
Speaker:insensitive a lot to be
Speaker:more sensitive.
Speaker:To, to, to the people I'm working with
Speaker:and, and, and genuinely
Speaker:compassionate about, about
Speaker:their plight. You know, about their
Speaker:experience. So, so not running
Speaker:away from that capability, but actually
Speaker:embracing it and seeing how you can use
Speaker:that to even greater advantage in what
Speaker:you're doing and helping people do the
Speaker:same for themselves, you know, to allow
Speaker:that, that the vulnerability to allow the
Speaker:sensitivity to, to come to the forest.
Speaker:Okay, You don't have to harden up. You
Speaker:don't have to, you know, push life away
Speaker:and become a hard person and you know.
Speaker:Become a tough person. Actually, you can
Speaker:use that sense that sensitivity is a real
Speaker:strength. And it certainly is my
Speaker:experience that it's a it is the
Speaker:difference that makes the difference more
Speaker:so good now.
Speaker:You mentioned it at the start around
Speaker:dealing with anger and different
Speaker:circumstances, something working with
Speaker:athletes that I know often stemming from
Speaker:that, that fairness element that that
Speaker:anger and frustration can come out
Speaker:of nowhere, particularly in the heat of
Speaker:battle in personal life.
Speaker:What do you recommend for people, again,
Speaker:whether it's within their sporting or
Speaker:personal life, to be able to deal with
Speaker:those things that blind side them that
Speaker:come out of nowhere?That create an
Speaker:emotional reaction when they are trying
Speaker:to stick to process, they are trying to
Speaker:be composed and that just knocks
Speaker:them right off course. So
Speaker:it's their expectations that knock
Speaker:them off course, not the event. And
Speaker:so when when they hold an
Speaker:expectation that reality should go a
Speaker:certain way and reality
Speaker:doesn't match that expectation, that is
Speaker:the single cause of suffering.
Speaker:And so expectations, the positive
Speaker:intention of an expectation is
Speaker:to guide and direct us to have
Speaker:a vision of possibility. But when we
Speaker:turn that into a vision of probability,
Speaker:we create a belief structure that we then
Speaker:project upon reality. And when reality
Speaker:doesn't meet that belief structure, we
Speaker:have a gap. That gap is suffering.
Speaker:And so and so, you know. Have
Speaker:expectations, don't have them. Have you?
Speaker:And see that an expectation is a
Speaker:structure about reality.
Speaker:It's a map. It's not the territory
Speaker:when when the territory begins
Speaker:to. Shift and
Speaker:and diverge from that
Speaker:structure. It's not the territory that
Speaker:needs to change. It's the structure that
Speaker:needs to change. Excuse me, I have a cat
Speaker:that is just not going to take no for an
Speaker:answer. It just wants to come in and
Speaker:won't be before you dive in, Jay. But my,
Speaker:my viewers are familiar with my cat
Speaker:coming in and interrupting my it's
Speaker:usually my cat. And yeah,
Speaker:so it's a very nice change.
Speaker:Sorry, Proceed so
Speaker:so. Is the map
Speaker:territory distinction is that that we, we
Speaker:create a map of how reality should be,
Speaker:but we mix it up with the territory and
Speaker:we begin to think that the
Speaker:territory needs to match our
Speaker:expectation, our map and, and you
Speaker:know, realities, intelligence is always
Speaker:going to unfold in the way it wants to
Speaker:unfold, not the way we want it to unfold.
Speaker:So, so when it occurs. What we need to do
Speaker:is we need to adjust the map, not try
Speaker:and change the territory because the map
Speaker:is simply a navigation device for the
Speaker:territory. If it's not working, change
Speaker:it. Like if Google Maps directs you to a
Speaker:brick wall, you don't rail against the
Speaker:brick wall and beat the brick wall down
Speaker:and yell and scream at Google Maps. You
Speaker:you look for an updated map that's going
Speaker:to that's going to get you through the
Speaker:territory more effectively. So you you
Speaker:might need to update your map. Google
Speaker:Maps. You might need to change maps, but
Speaker:the realisation is the map ain't helping
Speaker:me navigate the territory anymore. The
Speaker:map needs to change.
Speaker:That means that that stuff like
Speaker:fairness will fall into the
Speaker:background and and it'll be
Speaker:used as a guide and
Speaker:and and it won't be mixed up with the
Speaker:territory. And that allows us to be
Speaker:much more.
Speaker:What's the word?Flexible in how
Speaker:we approach the territory, how we
Speaker:approach the game, how we approach the
Speaker:event, the the umpiring, the refereeing,
Speaker:the crowd, the, you know, we, we can't
Speaker:control any of that, but we can control
Speaker:how we map it. Yeah, absolutely. And
Speaker:I guess I look at the difference that
Speaker:makes a difference from my perspective
Speaker:is, is that I work with a lot of people
Speaker:and it's been my own experience as being
Speaker:able to control emotions has been a
Speaker:challenge. And it's something I worked a
Speaker:lot on because it's something I've wanted
Speaker:to master. And then being able to help
Speaker:people in that moment. But what about
Speaker:when they, you can do the mapping
Speaker:beforehand, but when they're in the
Speaker:moment and they're and they have that
Speaker:emotional hijack, they have the amygdala
Speaker:hijack where they're they've gone to
Speaker:fight a flight. What? Yeah. What
Speaker:recommendation do you have for then to be
Speaker:able to deal with it? Because I'm sure
Speaker:even the people you've coached
Speaker:extensively would still have those
Speaker:moments. We see it on the TV all the time
Speaker:of athletes. They do, but
Speaker:over time, with good coaching, those
Speaker:moments become fewer and fewer. OK,
Speaker:so let's talk to the ones who, who
Speaker:haven't done that coaching. They're,
Speaker:they're in the moment. They're they're
Speaker:like, again, I'm not just talking about
Speaker:sport here, but their day-to-day life,
Speaker:right? Like, because they're the people
Speaker:listening to this, they, they might be
Speaker:community, community sport. And they're,
Speaker:and they're reacting on the sideline to
Speaker:things and they look back and go, oh, I
Speaker:wish I hadn't reacted. So it's a, it's so
Speaker:it's a process. It there's no, there's
Speaker:no magic bullet. But there is a
Speaker:powerful process that you can
Speaker:engage in. That over
Speaker:time we'll start to change
Speaker:how you see reality and the
Speaker:frames you're bringing that guide and
Speaker:govern how you make meaning your thoughts
Speaker:that drive your emotions. Yeah. So the
Speaker:first thing I teach people how to do is
Speaker:when that occurs
Speaker:is, is allow it to occur.
Speaker:Welcome it in, it's just simply part of
Speaker:your processing. But come back to it
Speaker:when you've got time. In the heat of the
Speaker:moment's gone. Now it becomes a
Speaker:learning experience, and it only becomes
Speaker:a learning experience if they will
Speaker:do the work to learn from it. And so the
Speaker:work is this to determine for
Speaker:themselves what was the movie that they
Speaker:were playing in mind just
Speaker:before they experienced the emotional
Speaker:snap. What was the movie that they played
Speaker:in in their head? What did they say to
Speaker:themselves? What visual movie? What
Speaker:sound bite did they play? What, what,
Speaker:what, what tightness did they experience
Speaker:and the feelings in their body? Where did
Speaker:they feel them and what and, and what was
Speaker:the meaning and the thinking driving
Speaker:that and bring that into your awareness
Speaker:now. Now when you bring them into your
Speaker:awareness, what does that link to?
Speaker:What are you referencing?
Speaker:From your past experience
Speaker:that that you that, that
Speaker:that drives that emotion. What are you
Speaker:referencing? What event, what experience,
Speaker:what memories are connected to that? When
Speaker:you can find those memories, you can find
Speaker:the meaning in the memory and you can
Speaker:find that the limiting
Speaker:decision you made
Speaker:about how you were going to
Speaker:respond. When that happened again.
Speaker:When you can do that, you can unwind that
Speaker:limiting decision that no longer serves
Speaker:you, that has you snap. And so
Speaker:it's it's super surprising the the
Speaker:things that come out when I'll go, you
Speaker:know, and tell me about and tell me about
Speaker:what happened. And they go this, that and
Speaker:the other happened and I go, great. What
Speaker:was the feeling that arose? And they go,
Speaker:the feeling was frustration. And
Speaker:I'll go close your eyes. I want you to go
Speaker:back inside and I want you to find a
Speaker:really early single one time. Where
Speaker:you experience that same frustration
Speaker:and they go, oh, OK. And they'll go
Speaker:inside and they'll go, oh, God, I
Speaker:was kidding. 12 years old in a soccer
Speaker:game, this happened, bang, you know, And
Speaker:I decided that's never going to happen
Speaker:again. And I'm like, there it is. So do
Speaker:you see, what's playing out for you is
Speaker:when this happens, you're unconsciously
Speaker:linking it to that memory. And that
Speaker:decision that you made is firing your
Speaker:emotional response. Right now, is that
Speaker:response serving you now as a mature
Speaker:adult? And they go, no, absolutely. And
Speaker:So what decision do you want to make
Speaker:around that? And when they make a new
Speaker:decision, it's not a limiting decision,
Speaker:it's a limitless decision. And so it's an
Speaker:unlimiting decision. And so that changes
Speaker:the nature of of in that moment when
Speaker:it happens again, it changes the nature
Speaker:of their response in that moment in the
Speaker:future through the decision that they
Speaker:made here today. Love
Speaker:it. So that's the process, but it
Speaker:takes work, right? And they've
Speaker:got to be willing to do the work. And one
Speaker:of the things I'll say to them is you
Speaker:can't expect the pay if you won't do the
Speaker:work. You have to do the
Speaker:work. You have to do the reflecting, you
Speaker:have to do the journaling, you have to do
Speaker:the work. No one can do it for you.
Speaker:Well said. I like the
Speaker:the a few of the things that you
Speaker:mentioned there that the
Speaker:subtleties of what you were saying as
Speaker:well, like you got to welcome. These
Speaker:emotions in you have to have an awareness
Speaker:around what's really playing out. You can
Speaker:look at the story, change the story, and
Speaker:then you can start to build new patterns.
Speaker:It'll take you forward really good.
Speaker:Jay, you've been so generous with your
Speaker:heartbeats today and and giving us
Speaker:spending some of them here today. So
Speaker:thank you very much. And you got
Speaker:another generous offer for for people
Speaker:tuning in today. So share that now.
Speaker:Yeah. So we we train neuro linguistic
Speaker:programming. In
Speaker:Sydney and in Melbourne with we've
Speaker:probably been one of the longest
Speaker:serving NLP trainers in the country and
Speaker:and we quite easily be the
Speaker:largest trainer of NLP. We run
Speaker:about 3 NLP training programmes a
Speaker:year in Sydney and three NLP training
Speaker:programmes a year in Melbourne. We
Speaker:charge about two and a half thousand for
Speaker:that training. It's an 8 day NLP
Speaker:practitioner certification training.
Speaker:And. For your viewers, we'll, we'll
Speaker:provide you with a $500 off that. So
Speaker:bringing it down to
Speaker:1949 and there's a
Speaker:code that you can use called E for Echo O
Speaker:for Orange 500,
Speaker:EO 500 will give you when you're checking
Speaker:out will give you a
Speaker:$500 off. And so if
Speaker:you did want to come and learn about this
Speaker:for whether you're parenting a high
Speaker:performance child, whether you are a high
Speaker:performance. Athlete or you're a coach
Speaker:and you want to learn these mental
Speaker:skills, NLP is the place to start
Speaker:without a doubt. Yeah, well said. And
Speaker:that is affordable given what I know
Speaker:is out there. And some people are paying
Speaker:much more for for the quality that's
Speaker:probably not anywhere near as good. So
Speaker:thank you, Jay. That's very generous of
Speaker:you. And again, thank you.
Speaker:Nice. Thank you
Speaker:again for your time, your heart beats.
Speaker:It's been a real pleasure. Thanks, buddy.
Speaker:I've really enjoyed having this
Speaker:conversation and the style in which you
Speaker:hold the conversation is different from
Speaker:pretty much any other podcast I've
Speaker:experienced. So well done, buddy. It's
Speaker:it's, it's lovely. Thank you. I
Speaker:appreciate that. And that's definitely
Speaker:the intention is to there's a lot of
Speaker:podcasts out there and my, my
Speaker:difference, right like to, to make sure
Speaker:it's a conversation about you and and
Speaker:your wisdom and your story. And I really
Speaker:appreciate you sharing that today, Jay.
Speaker:Thank you, buddy, much appreciated. Jeez.
Speaker:Hopefully after listening to that, you're
Speaker:already starting to think about the
Speaker:language you use and what you can do to
Speaker:change it. I'm certainly adding to my
Speaker:game plan some of the intricacies that
Speaker:Jay described in how to do
Speaker:exactly that. Now, if you want to hear
Speaker:more content like this, some extra
Speaker:content from the guests like Jay that I
Speaker:have on the podcast, jump into the
Speaker:Sporty Life movement, the links there in
Speaker:the show notes, and if you want to get a
Speaker:resource to help you continue to change.
Speaker:Language and make sure you opt in for
Speaker:my training on how to journal. It's one
Speaker:of the best tools out there to start
Speaker:having that awareness around your
Speaker:language and starting to make the changes
Speaker:you need.
Speaker:You've taken the time to listen to this
Speaker:whole episode. Now it's time to take
Speaker:action. Commit to one thing you've
Speaker:learned today and make it happen. And to
Speaker:avoid any obstructions, join the Sporty's
Speaker:Life movement by clicking on the link in
Speaker:the show notes.
